Legislature(2017 - 2018)GRUENBERG 120
03/21/2017 05:30 PM House STATE AFFAIRS
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SCR2 | |
| HB74 | |
| HJR15 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SCR 2 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 74 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HJR 15 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HB 74-DRIVER'S LICENSE & ID CARDS & REAL ID AC
[Contains brief mention of HJR 15 and SB 34.]
6:11:37 PM
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS announced that the next order of business
would be HOUSE BILL NO. 74, "An Act relating to the
implementation of the federal REAL ID Act of 2005; and relating
to issuance of identification cards and driver's licenses; and
providing for an effective date."
6:12:17 PM
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS opened public testimony on HB 74.
6:12:41 PM
SHARICE WALKER, Director, Community and Public Relations
Department, Fairbanks North Star Borough School District
(FNSBSD), testified that the FNSBSD supports HB 74. She stated
that the school district serves about 1,400 students at three
schools on Eielson Air Force Base (EAFB) and one school on Fort
Wainwright, and this accounts for slightly over 10 percent of
the FNSBSD student population. She said that there are 162
regular staff and many district-wide employees who visit the
schools regularly to deliver instruction, serve student needs,
and provide support to school staff. She maintained that on
average, each school requires three to five substitute or
temporary staff each day, and without a state identification
(ID) option, hundreds of staff members will be required to
obtain a passport to work on base. She mentioned that FNSBSD
already struggles to attract substitutes to fill absences,
especially at EAFB because of its distance from Fairbanks. She
asserted that the additional obstacle of requiring a passport
will increase that challenge.
MS. WALKER continued by saying that many of the students
attending the school at EAFB are civilian students from Moose
Creek, Salcha, and North Pole. This allows students to attend
the schools that are closest to their neighborhoods, and it
promotes schools having adequate numbers to create viable and
vibrant school environments. She said this arrangement allows
families from the surrounding community access to their school,
and until now, a valid Alaska ID has been sufficient for access.
She attested that without a state ID option, families would not
be able to attend a school event, participate in parent teacher
conferences, or even pick up a sick child, without a passport.
She asserted that this would create a barrier between civilian
parents and their children attending on-base schools. She
concluded that in the interest of maintaining excellent service
to the students and sustaining the strong and longstanding bonds
between local communities and the military population, FNSBSD
supports the passage of HB 74.
6:15:41 PM
MATT FLANDERS, Legislative Specialist, Citizens' Council for
Health Freedom (CCHF), testified that CCHF has opposed REAL ID
at the federal level and lead the effort against REAL ID in
Minnesota. He said that REAL ID has been called a key provision
of the 9/11 Commission Report in response to [the terrorist
attacks of September 11, 2001], but he maintained that was
inaccurate. He mentioned that in the nearly 600-page report,
there are only four sentences dedicated to securing driver's
licenses and ID cards.
MR. FLANDERS stated that in February, Maine's Secretary of State
[Matthew Dunlap] commented, "If we were to comply with REAL ID
today and the 911 terrorists were to stroll into the Bangor
Branch of the Bureau of Motor Vehicles and apply for REAL IDs,
the irony is that they would still get them." Mr. Flanders
asserted that REAL ID does not protect the country from
terrorism but creates a new set of problems regarding data
security. He maintained that REAL ID requires a state to
provide electronic access to all information contained in the
state's motor vehicle database. In addition, under REAL ID,
states would be required to send certain information to a "hub"
controlled by the American Association of Motor Vehicle
Administrators (AAMVA). He asserted that the required data
elements include sensitive personal information such as an
individual's Social Security number (SSN). He maintained that
Alaska's data privacy laws cannot protect the information of
Alaskans, when the data leaves the state.
MR. FLANDERS continued by saying that the most concerning aspect
of REAL ID is the provision that allows the secretary of the
Department of Homeland Security (DHS), an unelected bureaucrat,
to expand the minimum requirements and the required uses for
REAL ID for official purposes at any time without needing
congressional approval. He said that DHS attested in its
[final] rule [for implementation of the REAL ID Act] that it did
not have to seek congressional approval to make changes in the
future. He asserted that congressmen of either party could
envision an administration or individual that could do great
harm to the American people while wielding such ultimate power.
He offered that DHS clearly intends to make changes in the
future, evidenced by the 2014 addition to the [DHS final] rule
requiring states to recertify REAL ID compliance every three
years. He said that the only reason for requiring
recertification would be if changes to the requirements are
anticipated.
MR. FLANDERS maintained that REAL ID is a federal ID, and it
reverses the longstanding state authority over identification
and driving privileges. He asserted that if Alaska voluntarily
submits to REAL ID, it would become increasingly difficult for
it to resort to lawsuits. He relayed that the U.S. Supreme
Court ruled in Printz v. United States that a state cannot be
commandeered by the federal government to implement and pay for
federal programs. He said that DHS and the Transportation
Security Administration (TSA) can threaten and coerce, but that
is all they can do, and that is why six REAL ID deadlines have
come and gone.
MR. FLANDERS stated that on military bases, the base commanders
set the standards. He said that Fort Huachuca in Arizona allows
26 documents including utility bills and library cards for base
access. He mentioned that the State of Alaska would not be
alone in not complying [with REAL ID]. He learned from Montana
U.S. Senator [Steve] Daines's office that there is no interest
within the [Montana] legislature to even introduce a REAL ID
compliance bill. Mr. Flanders stated that the Minnesota Senate
recently voted down a REAL ID bill by a vote of 39-28.
MR. FLANDERS concluded that in the name of states' rights, of
protecting the data privacy of constituents, and of protecting
constituents' right to travel, he urged the committee members
not to "give in to" the federal threats regarding REAL ID and to
vote against HB 74.
6:20:06 PM
EDWARD HASBROUCK, Identity Project, testified in opposition to
HB 74. He stated that the Identity Project defends the
fundamental American right to move about the country without
having to show documents or obtain permission from the
government. He asserted that the federal REAL ID Act of 2005
requires each compliant state to make its database available to
all other states. He maintained that the only system capable of
accomplishing this relies on uploading "pointers" to a national
database called the State Pointer Exchange Services (SPEXS)
located in Virginia and operated by AAMVA and a contractor,
Clerus Solutions. He said that participation in SPEXS is the
only way to comply with the REAL ID Act, so if AAMVA later
decides that a state needs to upload photographs or other data
for the national database, the state cannot refuse or withdraw
from SPEXS without immediately becoming non-compliant. He
asserted that HB 74 would "hand over" Alaska's information and
how it is used to a private outside organization not subject to
any accountability or transparency rules that apply to
government agencies, such as the federal Privacy Act [of 1974]
or the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).
MR. HASBROUCK asserted that someone who requests a non-compliant
ID will think he/she has opted out of sending his/her
information to a national database, but that would not be true.
He said that the law requires data on all IDs, including non-
compliant ones, to be included [in the data transfer], and
Alaska has already uploaded pointers from Alaskans' current non-
compliant IDs to the national database. He said that the choice
seemingly offered for a non-compliant license is a phony one.
He stated that Alaska uploaded pointers from Alaskan IDs to the
SPEXS database last January. He relayed that only 14 states
have uploaded their state data to SPEXS. More than 85 percent
of the U.S. population live in states that are not yet SPEXS
participants and are not compliant with the REAL ID Act. He
reiterated that Alaska is not alone.
MR. HASBROUCK referred to the fear of needing a federal ID to
access military bases. He said from what Identity Project staff
has heard from other states, it has not been a problem.
Occasional visitors can be escorted [on base] until they obtain
a federal ID - typically a passport card. He maintained that
anyone who qualifies for a compliant state ID qualifies for a
passport card. A passport card can be used for all the same
purposes as well as land or sea travel to Canada, which would be
a major benefit for Alaskans. He asserted that a passport card
is often easier to obtain than a compliant state ID and much
cheaper than a full passport.
MR. HASBROUCK stated that Identity Project staff regularly hear
from people who are having problems getting compliant state IDs
in other states. He maintained that these people are most often
elderly people, people who have moved and need to obtain
documents from their state of birth, or people born at home
rather than in a hospital. He said that people in other states
can get a non-compliant ID and travel by road, but this is not
an option in parts of Alaska. He maintained that if the federal
government tries to "make good" on its threat of interfering
with air travel, Alaska needs a "Plan B" for people who do not
have the documents needed to obtain a compliant ID but need to
fly, even if the state becomes compliant.
MR. HASBROUCK stated that at present, no law requires anyone to
show ID to fly. He maintained that if the federal government
tries to change that, Alaska is uniquely well situated to
challenge the legality of such a restriction on Alaskans' right
to travel.
MR. HASBROUCK urged legislators not only to work with their
congressional delegation to repeal the REAL ID Act but also to
collaborate with the Alaska attorney general to prepare to
defend the right of Alaskans to freedom of travel, including air
travel. He mentioned the proposed legislation, HJR 15, which is
a joint resolution encouraging repeal of the REAL ID Act of
2005. He advocated for Alaska to initiate litigation at the
earliest opportunity to preempt these federal threats through an
injunction barring the federal government from interfering with
Alaskans' right to travel.
6:24:13 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL asked for confirmation that Alaska DMV is
currently uploading current driver's license information to
SPEXS.
MR. HASBROUCK responded yes, it occurred as a "batch upload" for
all Alaska licenses and ID cards over the weekend of January 28.
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL asked if the upload includes all the DMV
data or just a portion. He asked, "Do they have my license?"
MR. HASBROUCK answered that SPEXS would have some information
about Representative Wool's license. He relayed that at
present, [Identity Project staff] does not know what data is in
SPEXS because although they obtained the SPEXS specifications
one year ago, as soon as the Identity Project published the
specifications, AAMVA moved the specifications onto a private
section of its website. He stated that the key danger is that
the pointer data, which already includes SSNs, now resides in
the database in Virginia. He asserted that the database could
be expanded at AAMVA's sole discretion with no accountability to
Alaska and that expansion would most likely include photographs
with the pointers.
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL asked how the verification and documentation
process for getting a passport differs from getting a REAL ID.
He asked if getting a passport is less intrusive or does not
involve a central database such as SPEXS.
MR. HASBROUCK replied that a passport card is all that is
required, which is less than half the cost of a full passport.
He added that the passport card is a wallet sized plastic card.
He maintained that obtaining a passport card is a much simpler
process; one can apply at a post office and verify identity
through an identifying witness. He mentioned that one would
still be required to show documents verifying citizenship. He
stated that the central database for passports is kept by a
federal agency, which is subject to FOIA. The agency must
publish a notice of contents and use before creating the
database; it must enable the public to find out what is in the
database; and it must have a mechanism for correcting errors.
He offered that his organization has been trying to discover how
to correct errors in SPEXS and "it's a nightmare." He asserted
that [Clerus Solutions] aggregates data from all the states and
takes no responsibility for it. He gave the following example:
If there is a pointer in SPEXS associated with an individual's
name, that person cannot obtain a license, because the database
indicates that the person has a license in another state. The
individual then needs to figure out which state posted that
pointer and work through that state to correct the information.
If AAMVA makes the mistake, and the pointer does not correspond
to data from any state, that is a "catch-22," and there is no
way to fix it.
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL referred to Mr. Hasbrouck's statement that
it is not federal law that requires a person to show an ID at
the airport. He mentioned that he believes that it would be
difficult to travel by air without an ID. He asked if that was
a TSA policy.
MR. HASBROUCK responded, "It's a myth actually." He stated that
in 2002, the founder of the Identity Project sued challenging
the ID requirement. He said the case was dismissed by the
United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ("Ninth
Circuit"), which has jurisdiction over Alaska, after TSA
presented evidence that its policy includes a process by which
people can fly without IDs. He mentioned that his organization
has made a FOIA request for the reports showing this TSA policy.
He added that people do fly without IDs every day; they are
usually people who have lost their licenses; it slows them down
a little, but not much.
6:28:43 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked Mr. Hasbrouck if he knew how long it
takes for a person to be processed for flying if he/she does not
show an ID.
MR. HASBROUCK reiterated that his organization has requested the
reports showing TSA's policy on that, but the response has been
slow. He suggested that the wait time [for being processed] is
typically 10-20 minutes on average.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if the traveler is strip searched.
MR. HASBROUCK stated that everyone is at risk of being processed
through the "naked scanner," which amounts to a virtual strip
search. He said that TSA claims that it has authority to
require a person to submit to whatever they define as screening
at that time. He added that there are no published federal
regulations that define the scope of authority of TSA.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX referred to the categories of people who
might have difficulties obtaining a REAL ID compliant ID, such
as the elderly or someone having been born at home. She asked
if these difficulties would also apply to people attempting to
get a passport card.
MR. HASBROUCK answered, "Absolutely." He asserted that in other
states, there is a "fall back": one can drive or take the bus.
He added that in many places in Alaska, "if you can't jump
through those hoops," you cannot get to other places or access
essential services. He maintained there is a difference between
requiring a person to take a bus and "trapping" them in a
community that is accessible only by air. He stated that even
if Alaska becomes REAL ID compliant, it would still have to
address the issue of the right to travel by air.
6:31:14 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if a REAL ID could be obtained by
mail or would require a visit to a DMV office.
6:31:35 PM
MARLA THOMPSON, Director, Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV),
Department of Administration (DOA), answered that the first time
a person obtains a REAL ID, he/she would need to provide his/her
source documents, but after that, renewals would be available
online.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX suggested there would be a great number of
people waiting in line at DMV, if HB 74 passes and is initiated.
She asked if DMV has made plans to accommodate the crowds of
people who will be attempting to obtain REAL IDs.
MS. THOMPSON replied that DMV staff has considered that and is
hoping for early passage of the proposed legislation to give
them more time to process the IDs. She expressed her belief
that people will pursue obtaining REAL IDs based on their travel
needs, and DMV will need to provide information to the public
regarding that. She asserted that getting a REAL ID is less
intrusive than getting a passport card, because one must have a
passport to obtain a passport card. She added that one must
send in his/her birth certificate with the [application] and
wait for it to be returned by mail. She maintained that getting
a REAL ID at DMV would just involve showing one's documents,
which are immediately returned. She added that DMV would be
applying for an extension with DHS so that having a REAL ID
would not be required until the final date [of the extension].
6:34:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked for confirmation that getting a
passport card requires someone to send in his/her birth
certificate, if he/she already has a passport. She mentioned
that she has always renewed her passport by mailing her old
passport in [to the U.S. Department of State]. She asked why
that would be different for getting a passport card, if one
already had a passport.
MS. THOMPSON clarified that one would not have to produce a
document if he/she already had a passport. She added that many
people do not already have passports. She said that people can
get passport cards at the same time as they get their passports.
6:35:27 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked if there are dues or fees required to
be a member of AMVAA.
MR. HASBROUCK, in response to Representative LeDoux's previous
question, stated that an individual does not have to have a
passport to obtain a passport card. He maintained that passport
cards were specifically devised to be a cheaper alternative to
the full passport. He said that to obtain a passport card, one
could send in his/her birth certificate or show it in person at
the passport office in Anchorage.
MR. HASBROUCK, in response to Representative Tuck, stated that
AAMVA is a private non-profit organization; the members are the
directors of state and provincial motor vehicle associations.
He asserted that since AAMVA is a private organization, it can
choose to disclose as much or as little as it wants about its
internal procedures and decision-making.
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked if AAMVA charges dues or fees, or if
it provides a free service to the state.
MS. THOMPSON replied that the state does pay a fee to belong to
AAMVA and pays additional fees depending on its use of AAMVA
data.
6:37:33 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked how much the state has paid to AAMVA
since entering a contract with it in January.
MS. THOMPSON explained that since Alaska was part of a pilot
program, there were no fees to sign up or for the first year.
6:38:27 PM
SARAH LEFEBVRE, Coalaska, Greater Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce,
stated that she was testifying in behalf of the Greater
Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce and her employer, Coalaska, which
is the parent company for SECON and Emulsion Products ("SECON")
in Southeast Alaska, Quality Asphalt Paving (QAP) in the
Anchorage area, and Exclusive Paving in Interior Alaska. She
said, "We respect the efforts of the legislature to protect the
identity and the data of Alaskans; however, this is a federal
requirement that can't be avoided, and Alaska has run out of
time. We are both heartened and disheartened for this finally
being addressed now. At this time, we are concerned about the
cost of inaction."
MS. LEFEBVRE maintained that if legislation does not pass, then
there will be an adverse economic impact in Fairbanks and
throughout the state. She mentioned that the military accounts
for one-third of the economy of the Fairbanks North Star Borough
(FNSB), much of which comes from military contracts with local
businesses and individuals for both short- and long-term
endeavors. She asserted that in the face of upcoming federal
deadlines, Alaska's continued non-compliance with the REAL ID
Act will create a barrier to Alaska businesses that would
otherwise be involved in the construction industry. She said
that out-of-state workers will be given the advantage for work
hours on military installations, because most states are issuing
REAL ID compliant IDs. She mentioned the irony of Alaska not
encouraging local hire as are other states.
MS. LEFEBVRE offered that it is critical that legislation pass
this year, due to the approaching deadlines established by DHS.
She said that the consequences of non-compliance with the REAL
ID Act would affect Alaska businesses as early as June,
regarding access to military facilities, and by next January,
regarding travel. She asserted that Alaska must take this
necessary step toward compliance now, as DMV will need as long
as a year to have the necessary equipment and processes in place
to provide the compliant IDs. She offered that without action
that at least indicates a good faith effort toward compliance,
Alaska will likely run out of deadline extensions, making the
proposed legislation inevitable. She stated that passing the
proposed legislation now rather than later would reduce the
impact to working Alaskans and the businesses that employ them
in the near-term and would resolve the impending travel issue.
6:40:40 PM
SCOTT EICKHOLT, Alaska Laborers Local 942, testified that he
represents over 1,000 members of the Alaska Laborers Local 942
in Fairbanks and the outlying areas. He said that he concurred
with Ms. Lefebvre's testimony. He asserted that "kicking the
can down the road doesn't do us any good." He relayed that the
members of his union are looking for work and waiting for work
to become available. He offered that getting a passport is
expensive, and even getting the less expensive passport card
constitutes a burden on the union members. He stated that since
a birth certificate is required to obtain a passport, he sees no
difference in the requirements for getting a REAL ID. He
suggested that the information on his ID is basic and can be
harvested from many generic websites. He mentioned that he
didn't understand the "fear" regarding REAL ID. He reiterated
that postponing passage of HB 74 would just prolong the
inevitable, put a burden on the union workers, and put non-
residents to work before Alaskan residents.
6:42:35 PM
KAREN PERRY testified in opposition to HB 74. She cited Article
1, Section 22, of the Alaska Constitution, titled "Right of
Privacy," which read as follows: "The right of the people to
privacy is recognized and shall not be infringed." She asserted
that the legislature's job and sworn oath is to protect the
rights of Alaskans. She maintained that legislators may not
allow the federal government to dictate illegally to Alaskans,
pass illegal bills usurping the right of Alaskans to privacy, or
pass a bill that violates Alaskans' liberties.
MS. PERRY maintained that the REAL ID Act was not passed through
a true democratic process; it was "slipped through" the U.S.
Congress in May 2005 in a must-pass, Iraq war, tsunami relief
supplemental bill as part of a deal reached between the powerful
Congressman James Sensenbrenner, a Republican from Wisconsin,
and the congressional leadership. She asserted that the process
did not allow time for sufficient consideration of the Act or
its sweeping implications. She maintained that there was not a
single hearing on the Act in the U.S. Senate. She opined that
the REAL ID Act lacks the legitimacy that comes from having been
studied, [vetted], considered, and directly voted upon by
elected representatives.
MS. PERRY said, "This insane bill is nothing more than an
illegal constitution busting piece of tyranny." (indisc.) She
reiterated that it is the duty and sworn oath of the legislature
to maintain and protect the rights of Alaskans. She asked the
committee members to honor that oath. She maintained that
Alaskans should never willingly comply with federal tyranny.
She urged the committee members to stop HB 74 in committee and
said that it is not the committee's job to give Alaskans a
choice between a driver's license and an illegal license
resulting from federal overreach. She maintained that Alaska
deserves legislators who understand the difference between
constitutional laws and unconstitutional laws and are willing to
take a stand against federal tyranny. She asked the committee
members to vote "no" on HB 74.
6:46:11 PM
PAM GOODE testified that she is adamantly opposed to HB 74. She
relayed that data is extremely valuable and helpful in achieving
long-term and short-term goals: in the hands of the right
people, it is absolutely wonderful; in the hands of the wrong
people, it can be extremely dangerous. She said that the
framers of the U.S. Constitution had this in mind when they
wrote the Bill of Rights and the Fourth Amendment of the U.S.
Constitution. She offered that Alaskans also understood this
when they implemented Article 1, Section 22, "Right to Privacy,"
of the Alaska Constitution.
MS. GOODE asserted that the government, in protecting the
public's inalienable rights, should not give people the choice
of privacy protection. She maintained that many people blindly
trust the government. She asserted that HB 74 is not about
security; if it were about security than the country's borders
would have been secured long ago. She attested that the support
for HB 74 is driven by the government mandate and fear of the
consequences of non-compliance [with the REAL ID Act].
[Ms. Goode's testimony was cut off due to technical
difficulties.]
6:48:49 PM
WILLIAM TOPEL testified that he urges a "no" vote on HB 74. He
asserted that the REAL ID Act is a violation of the U.S.
Constitution, the Alaska Constitution, and AS 44.99.040. He
said that currently there already exists a violation - the
facial [recognition] biometric signature, which is taken from
the new Alaska driver's licenses without consent. He stated
that the data is being shared with a private company of the
Netherlands by the name of Gemalto. He declared that to be a
clear violation of the Alaska Constitution, Article 1, Section
22, "Right to Privacy."
MR. TOPEL relayed that the REAL ID Act was signed into law by
President George W. Bush in 2005, and it turned states' driver's
licenses into national identity cards. He maintained that the
Act was "rushed" through the U.S. Congress as a must-pass, Iraq
war, tsunami relief supplemental bill, without a single hearing
in the U.S. Senate. He asserted that the Act lacked the
legitimacy that comes from having been studied, debated,
considered, and directly voted upon by elected representatives.
MR. TOPEL stated that the problems of non-compliance identified
by some people were not problems that people, employees, or
contractors had before passage of the REAL ID Act. He said this
demonstrates the onerous burden of complying with the REAL ID
Act. He suggested that maybe those federal employees, federal
contractors, and others should seek a better way to secure their
identifications for their businesses or employment situations.
He maintained that most regular Alaskans should not be burdened.
He mentioned that University of Alaska Anchorage (UAA) students
(indisc.) on Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson (JBER) can get on a
list to access base in one week. He added that driver's license
regulation is a state function and not a federal function under
the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
MR. TOPEL stated that there are two readily apparent problems of
HB 74. He cited lines 5-6, on page 2, which read: "A person
must clearly choose a compliant identification card." He cited
lines 25-26, on page 2, which read: "A person must clearly
choose a compliant driver's license." He maintained that these
two passages "contradict an intent to choose or issue either a
compliant or a non-compliant license or card."
MR. TOPEL urged the committee to seek the answers to the many
questions regarding HB 74 and SB 34 in Representative Tuck's
March 16, 2017, letter [included in the committee packet] to
Commissioner Sheldon Fisher of the Department of Administration
(DOA). He offered that he is not totally convinced that some of
the changes to HB 74 protect the rights of Alaskans. He
maintained that Alaskans getting the compliant ID card have no
guarantee that their information privacy would be protected by
private contractors. He urged the committee not to allow
Governor Bill Walker to continue to federalize state activities
and functions. He asserted that legislators took an oath of
office to protect and defend both the Alaska Constitution and
U.S. Constitution; the right to privacy is part of what they
swore to protect and defend. He urged a "no" vote on HB 74.
6:52:27 PM
MIKE COONS testified that there is no mention of REAL ID under
DHS in President Donald Trump's budget. He relayed that to the
contrary, the document discusses eliminating and reducing
unauthorized and underperforming programs initiated by TSA to
strengthen screening at airport security checkpoints at a saving
of $80 million in the 2017 annualized continuing resolution (CR)
level. He added that REAL ID would fall under "unauthorized
programs."
MR. COONS stated that he has served in the U.S. military and has
worked at the entrance gate at JBER ensuring that people who
enter the base have proper IDs and passes. He asserted that it
is up to the post commander as to what ID he/she will allow. He
said that he concurs with the previous comments regarding the
protection of privacy of Alaskans. He maintained that the
requirements of the REAL ID Act were "pushed" predominantly over
the last eight years by President Barack Obama, an effort
supported by Governor Walker. He claimed that Governor Walker
campaigned that he would fight against federal overreach, but he
now supports federal overreach in the form of HB 74 and the REAL
ID. He stated that he has served in the military all over the
world and has seen people have their ID papers checked for no
cause. He maintained that the current President of the United
States upholds the U.S. Constitution, and passing HB 74 would be
an act of stupidity by the legislature and the governor.
6:57:16 PM
MS. GOODE continued maintained that HB 74 would constitute
privacy violations, and the current driver's license is in
violation of AS 44.99.040, which says that no money shall be
spent toward the REAL ID. She asserted that the new driver's
license under HB 74 would do exactly that. She stated that when
facial recognition [software] came into existence and was used
without an individual's consent or knowledge, it constituted a
huge violation. She maintained that a person with an impeccable
driver record, who avoided updating his/her driver's license,
would "instantly become a criminal" if pulled over by law
enforcement for any reason. She maintained that there are
people who were born at home, did not obtain a SSN, and want to
maintain their privacy. She asserted that some people do not
want to have to submit to facial recognition to receive a
driver's license. She relayed that she contacted legislators
and the governor's office and was told that since getting a
driver's license is a choice, there is no violation. One can
travel by a variety of other modes, but without submitting to
facial recognition to obtain a driver's license, one cannot
drive. She asserted that the law clearly requires only color
photographs and does not mention facial recognition. She said
that if one updates his/her driver's license online, then
his/her old photograph will be used. She concluded by saying
she opposes HB 74.
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked Ms. Goode if she was referring to the
State of Alaska or another state regarding facial recognition.
MS. GOODE replied that she was referring to the State of Alaska.
She maintained that Marquis ID Systems (MIDS) was under contract
with Alaska; MIDS was acquired by Gemalto of the Netherlands;
and Alaska's data goes to Gemalto. She stated that the
photographs are "facial recognition photographs," and "it's the
crème de la crème of identity."
7:00:33 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL asked Ms. Thompson, Director of the DMV, to
clarify the situation regarding use of facial recognition.
MS. THOMPSON responded that DMV uses a software that performs
facial identification based on pictures in the DMV database for
the verification of a person getting a new ID, by comparing the
new picture with the old picture in the database. If the faces
do not match, a DMV employee reviews it.
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL asked if currently the image capture is
shared with anyone out-of-state.
MS. THOMPSON answered, "No it is not."
7:02:12 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked if facial images are included in the
data points uploaded to AAMVA.
MS. THOMPSON answered that there are no photos included in the
upload. She added that for the State-to-State (S2S)
Verification Service database, AAMVA requires only the
customer's name, the last five digits of the SSN, birthdate,
driver's license or ID, and the state of issue. This
information is used to determine if an applicant has a driver's
license from another state. She maintained that all states have
laws that a driver may only have one driver's license.
7:03:19 PM
TARA RICH, Legal and Policy Director, American Civil Liberties
Union of Alaska, testified that ACLU has heard grave concerns
about individuals' privacy rights. She asserted that Alaska has
been "dealt a very bad hand" with regard to the choice of
impacting citizens in a direct way or impacting their privacy in
a direct way. She stated that the ACLU of Alaska's position of
opposition to REAL ID is well known and her comments are focused
on how to comply with HB 74 in the most privacy protected manner
should the proposed legislation pass.
MS. RICH referred to compliant IDs and said that for Alaska to
be able to comply with only the bare minimum required under
statute, those requirements must be written into the law. She
said that REAL ID requires the state to retain identity
documents for 10 years. These documents would be a U.S.
passport or a copy of a birth certificate. She attested that
ACLU of Alaska recommends that only one of these documents be
retained and that it be destroyed after 10 years. She mentioned
that the paper application currently required by DMV includes
the SSN. She said the ACLU of Alaska recommends that only a
paper copy containing the SSN be retained and not a scanned
digital copy. She added that ACLU of Alaska also recommends
that the non-compliant ID not include images of applicants'
faces. She maintained that some other states have been
pressured by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to comply
with a broader facial recognition database, but so far Alaska
has not been requested to do so. She stated that ACLU of Alaska
recommends that "enshrining" this into law now would prevent the
additional federal overreach.
7:06:54 PM
MS. RICH stated that the multi-state shared pointer system
requires certain information about Alaskans be collected and
stored in the system to identify the individuals and ensure that
an individual asking for a driver's license does not hold a
driver's license from another state. She relayed that the
information required in this data system is name, date of birth,
place of birth, and the last five digits of the SSN. She
mentioned that for two individuals with the same name, date of
birth, and place of birth, the last five digits of the SSN
ostensibly differentiates them. She stated that the last five
digits of the SSN is not required by REAL ID and not required by
law for S2S. She related that the ACLU of Alaska recommends
that the last five digits of the SSN not be included in the
information that is shared with other states. She maintained
that the last five digits of one's SSN is a critical invasion of
privacy because up until 2011, the first three digits of
Alaskans' SSNs were all the same - based on location - and that
was true for many parts of the country. She relayed that
knowing the last five digits of the SSN and the place of birth
leaves only one digit left to determine to derive the full SSN.
She claimed that for that reason, it was critically important
that those five digits not be included with the pointer system
information being transmitted.
7:09:12 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK stated his understanding that AAMVA is the
only organization that can operate the SPEXS and S2S; it has the
contract for operating them; and there is no federal oversight
over AAMVA. He added that if it wanted to change any
requirements, it would need to register with the Federal
Register, but there would be no opportunity for debate. He
added that any state not complying with the new provisions would
be non-compliant.
MS. RICH replied that there is no existing database that has
been certified as REAL ID compliant by DHS. She added that the
[AAMVA] database currently is the only one used for this
purpose, and while AAMVA's goal is that the database be
compliant, it has yet to be determined compliant by DHS. She
stated that she believes that there would not be federal
oversight; the last five digits of the SSN are not required by
REAL ID or even the AAMVA database; and Alaska should be "the
state to stand up and say" that the last five digits of the SSN
should not be transferred to AAMVA.
7:11:58 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked what would happen to Alaskans' ability
to go on base and travel, if DHS decides that any state not
releasing the last five digits of the SSN is not REAL ID
compliant.
MS. RICH restated Representative Tuck's question: What would
happen to Alaskan rights if requirements changed and the AAMVA
database system is no longer technically compliant with REAL ID?
She said that since the AAMVA database has not been determined
to be compliant, it is premature to ask this question. She
stated that if the AAMVA database were determined to be
compliant, it most likely would retain all the REAL ID
requirements, but that would not stop AAMVA from requesting more
privacy invasive data than what is required by REAL ID.
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK referred to the section, titled "Facial
Image Capture," in the 03/13/17 ACLU of Alaska letter to the
committee, included in the packet. He mentioned that according
to the letter, Alaska DMV is not participating in the privacy-
compromising facial recognition system. He relayed that an
audit of the facial recognition technology used by the FBI
revealed that the FBI had not followed proper measures under
federal law. He stated that as a result, if the FBI uses this
technology, it must conduct a Privacy Identification Assessment
(PIA). He said that the FBI is attempting to convince states to
sign up for Facial Analysis, Comparison and Evaluation (FACE),
and some states are developing their own. He asked, "What are
[the states] doing with those facial recognition and who's
selling the software ... and what purpose do they use it for?"
MS. RICH answered that her understanding is that it is used in
criminal investigations. She expressed that she would research
facial recognition and update the committee.
7:15:22 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP asked Ms. Rich if she had read the paper,
titled "The Identity Project," submitted with Edward Hasbrouck's
3/21/17 letter, included in the committee packet.
MS. RICH responded that she had not.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP relayed that the paper states there are
errors in the AAMVA database, and there is no process for
correcting them. He asked if that statement is accurate.
MS. RICH responded that she has not read the report but would
obtain a copy and follow up on that with her contact at AAMVA.
7:16:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked for any suggestions on how to handle
the problems that are anticipated, if the state determines not
to comply with REAL ID.
MS. RICH mentioned that ACLU of Alaska would be open to
exploring litigation as one avenue. She stated that ACLU of
Alaska would be amenable to assisting the state with making the
non-compliance process as smooth as possible.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if ACLU has filed a lawsuit opposing
REAL ID.
MS. RICH replied that there are other state ACLU affiliates
going through the same process as ACLU of Alaska, but she has
not heard of an affiliate who has filed direct litigation for a
privacy violation.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if lengthy litigation such as this
might be subject to a preliminary injunction based on a judge's
determination of the likelihood of success.
MS. RICH answered that would depend on the facts of the case and
how it was presented. She offered that if the case were well
suited on the merits, a preliminary injunction could be
requested.
7:18:49 PM
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH cited the various methods of using
biometrics in authentication, such as facial recognition, iris
scans, deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) extractions, and
fingerprints. He offered that even a phone can sort pictures in
order of similarities. He asked what the difference is between
the passport database that TSA uses and the driver's license
database. He mentioned that there is already so much
information available on people that "any sixth grader with a
laptop and some nominal ability to do research" can access it.
MS. RICH expressed her understanding that a photograph from the
front of an ID is not considered a data point such that it would
be shared and collected in a database nationwide. She mentioned
that she recognizes that there is a great deal of information
publicly available, but she said she views information that an
individual chooses to place in the public arena very differently
from information that a government compels an individual to make
public to be able to travel or go to work.
7:21:12 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK cited the ACLU of Alaska letter of 3/14/17,
which stated that the legislature should ensure that Alaska DMV
never uses the face recognition technology. He asked why that
is.
MS. RICH responded that her understanding is that Alaska has not
participated yet in facial recognition. She asserted that
facial recognition represents a very broad expanse of the
government's access to data. She stated that there have been
several U.S. Supreme Court decisions in which U.S. Supreme Court
Justice Sonia Sotomayor referenced the "mosaic theory" of
privacy - a concept which includes the facial recognition
privacy issue. Ms. Rich said that even though typically people
are not interested in keeping their faces private, using facial
recognition software throughout a city such as New York City,
where cameras are placed everywhere throughout the city, allows
the government to track people's movements. She maintained that
even if a person is not the target of an investigation, being
included in the photos allows the government to slowly, piece by
piece, gather and consolidate information about the person and
the person's private life, and that situation is dangerous. She
recommended that the legislature ensure the facial recognition
technology not be submitted to the FBI by incorporating it into
law.
7:23:15 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK referenced a recent consumer report article
that asserts "privacy isn't dead" and suggests ways to protect
one's privacy. He said the article explained that data is the
new currency, and the reason so many applications ("apps") are
free is because of the information that is accessed by them. He
said he would share the article with the committee members.
7:24:18 PM
WILLIAM DEATON testified that he and his family oppose HB 74 and
support HJR 15. He said that he opposes allowing driver's
license pictures to be included in a national system with facial
recognition software. He asserted that it would be a violation
of Article 1, Section 22 of the U.S. Constitution, titled "Right
to Privacy." He relayed that the company that uses the facial
recognition software is not only outside of Alaska, but in a
foreign country; Gemalto is 100 percent owned by the
Netherlands. He stated that the REAL ID Act is unconstitutional
at the federal level, because it violates Article 1, Section 14
of the U.S. Constitution.
MR. DEATON cited a sentence in the analysis of the fiscal note
prepared by the Department of Military & Veterans' Affairs
(DMVA), which read as follows: "If this bill is not passed,
Alaska's citizens would need to have other federally approved
identification to travel by air, as well as for access to all
federal buildings in the State of Alaska, including military
bases." He asserted that the legislature should stand up to the
federal government by not passing HB 74. He referred to the
website, realnightmare.org, which lists seven problems with the
REAL ID. He cited the third problem listed on the website,
which read as follows [original punctuation provided]:
Will be a nightmare for state governments. Real ID
requires state governments to remake their driver's
licenses, restructure many of their computer databases
and other systems, create an extensive new document-
storage system, and - perhaps most difficult of all -
verify the "issuance, validity and completeness" of
every document presented at DMVs.
MR. DEATON urged the committee not to pass HB 74.
7:27:23 PM
DON ETHERIDGE, American Federation of Labor and Congress of
Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO) of Alaska, testified that the
AFL-CIO of Alaska supports HB 74. He stated that under HB 74,
it would be easier for the members of the AFL-CIO to access
bases, travel by air, and to work. He reminded the committee
that under HB 74, obtaining a REAL ID would be voluntary. He
asserted that for AFL-CIO workers, having a REAL ID will make it
easier to access bases, because only a driver's license would be
required.
MR. ETHERIDGE maintained that a person with very little computer
expertise can access "everything" about a person except his/her
SSN, with only a name and city of residence, for $19.95 per
month.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked for clarification regarding the
AFL-CIO of Alaska support for REAL ID.
MR. ETHERIDGE replied that AFL-CIO of Alaska is only concerned
for its members being able to access military bases, airplanes,
and their jobs. He added that time is short [for passing
legislation] to allow for easy access. He maintained that if
AFL-CIO of Alaska members are unable to work, then the employers
serving the bases will bring in workers from out-of-state who
have the proper IDs.
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK stated that he would not want to belong to
an organization whose membership would be willing to give up all
rights to get on base. He asked if Mr. Etheridge was concerned
with the information going to a company owned by a foreign
country.
MR. ETHERIDGE responded that the information is "out there"
already, which is a constant concern. He stated that he already
has had his ID stolen and his credit cards compromised.
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asserted that AFL-CIO should fight for its
workers' protections and not just be concerned with employment
and access.
7:31:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked why one would be opposed to getting
a passport card.
MR. ETHERIDGE expressed his understanding that the opposition is
due to cost and inconvenience; it cannot be obtained at DMV, and
it requires a lengthier process.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX suggested that there will be complaints
about lines at DMV when everyone tries to get his/her ID at the
last minute.
MR. ETHERIDGE replied that with REAL ID being optional, there
would not be a large number of people obtaining them. He
mentioned that also many of the workers have passports that
could be used until they are able to get REAL IDs.
7:33:10 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked if it is easier to go to a post office
than a DMV.
MR. ETHERIDGE offered that it is not easier due to having to get
a passport picture taken and filling out the application.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if getting a passport is that much
harder.
MR. ETHERIDGE replied that he didn't consider it harder, but it
is an additional ID that would need to be taken to work, rather
than just a driver's license, which a person would be carrying
anyway in order to drive.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX offered that if a member had a passport
card, he/she would carry it in his/her wallet just as a driver's
license.
MR. ETHERIDGE agreed.
7:34:47 PM
SENATOR SHENNA BELLOWS, testifying on behalf of herself,
mentioned that Maine has grappled with the same issues as
Alaska. She stated that one of the jobs of state legislators is
to stand up against federal mandates that they believe
compromise the security and freedom of their constituents. She
said that she urges Alaska to resist complying with the REAL ID
Act. She expressed her concern with the data warehousing
requirement of the REAL ID Act. She said she believes it is
"madness" for the federal government to force the state to spend
millions of taxpayer dollars to create a "treasure trove" for
identity thieves. She referred to the challenge and expense of
keeping pace with the technology developed by hackers and
thieves when maintaining a centralized database, and she
referred to Alaska's limited state resources. She said that it
is not a question of if the data will be breached but when and
with what consequence.
SENATOR BELLOWS offered that Maine, like Alaska, has a long,
proud tradition of standing up for the fundamental right to
privacy and has been a leader in this regard, because the right
to be left alone is an inherent part of what it means to be an
American. She asserted that limiting federal intrusion on the
private lives of citizens is fundamental to the health of the
country's democracy. She maintained that is unconscionable that
the federal government is threatening to ban Alaskans and
(indisc.) from (indisc.) and federal buildings and facilities.
She claimed that it is absolutely not true that current licenses
are not secure.
SENATOR BELLOWS relayed that Maine passed emergency legislation
to fund the issuance of passport cards to veterans and other
personnel needing to access military and veteran facilities.
She said that there are discussions in Maine about potentially
funding passport cards for a larger portion of the Maine
population, rather than complying with the federal REAL ID Act.
She mentioned that she and her fellow senator, Senator Eric
Brakey, authored a letter to President Donald Trump, which will
be provided to the committee, urging him to repeal the anti-
privacy provisions of the REAL ID Act by executive order. She
suggested that Alaskan legislators sign on to the letter and
contemplate alternatives to HB 74, which would undermine
Alaskans' privacy and security.
7:38:38 PM
TOM BRICE, Alaska Laborers, explained that the Alaska Laborers
is composed of three Alaskan-based unions: Laborers Local 942;
Laborers 341 based out of Anchorage; and Public Employees Local
71. He stated that applying for his passport required him to
make two trips to his post office, ensure that the application
was filled out in black ink, make a few phone calls to find out
where his parents were born, obtain an original copy of his
birth certificate, and secure additional identification to
accompany the application. He said he concluded that getting a
passport is not as easy as it appears. He relayed that he
applied for the passport card and the passport; the card cost
$50 and the passport application cost $25. He added that there
is a six week wait for the documents. He said that for another
$250, he could have the process expedited. He urged the
committee to move both HB 74 and HJR 15 out of committee and not
leave Alaskans "in limbo" for accessing work and travel. He
said that the proposed legislation is optional, and if Congress
overturns the REAL ID Act, that will take time to be
implemented.
MR. BRICE relayed that a number of the bargaining units that he
represents are responsible for school maintenance on military
bases. He said that these positions are entry level, and the
cost of a passport for these workers is significant. He
expressed his understanding that if HB 74 is passed, Alaska may
be able to get an extension to give people time to get the
required IDs, and the federal government may repeal the Act
during that time.
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK referred to Senator Bellow's letter to the
President asking him to take executive action. He asked if the
Alaska Laborers would be willing also to write a letter.
MR. BRICE said that he is not prepared to speak in behalf of his
organization in that regard but would let the members know. He
added that with the short timeline, he doubts if the response of
the federal government would be timely.
7:44:30 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP asked Mr. Brice if he would support HB 74,
if he did not represent the union membership.
MR. BRICE said, "As an option, yes." He said that without the
option, he would be more hesitant. He gave an example of
getting a background check for gun ownership; he does not
appreciate it and finds it frustrating. He reiterated that
information on him is readily available from the Internet.
7:46:18 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked how many people in Alaska need
access to a military base for work.
MR. BRICE answered that he guesses about 100-150 workers in his
bargaining unit and another 100 in another union. He mentioned
that this number only refers to service workers, not
construction workers.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX maintained that her concern is the $1.5
million fiscal note and the cost per person above that.
MR. BRICE stated that another aspect of the proposed legislation
is the complexity of getting a REAL ID versus going through the
passport process. He reiterated that the passport application
is daunting, and the process for getting a passport is
frustrating.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX suggested that going to the post office
and going to DMV are equally unpleasant.
7:48:55 PM
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS, after ascertaining that there was no one
else who wished to testify, closed public testimony on HB 74.
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS announced that HB 74 was held over.